Oh that's true. But aren't there people in the Ministry who would control abuse of power like that?

And I absolutely loathe Cornelius Fudge. Ignorance Is Bliss..his motto all the way.

Hah. I just noticed your name is Reed and you're a clarinet player. I'm amused. Lol.

It seems to me that there really isn't the best set of checks and balances in the Ministry. I mean, Fudge was able to get rid of Dumbledore's support over the course of a summer, so it must have been fairly easy, right?

Rachel, Ravenclaw

I've always thought that Veritaserum is kind of like the Imperious Curse - you're making someone do something against their will, whether it's for good or no. It's interesting to see how far wizards are willing to go for the truth - would they want to stoop to the level of an Unforgivable Curse in the pursuit of truth?

However, I can see them using it for big cases like Sirius. I don't think they used it because there was just absoloutly no evidence proving otherwise, and I don't think he ever testified that switched Secret Keepers. Does it ever mention in canon if he told anyone about the switch before Azkaban?

I don't think anyone was ever told. Not even Dumbledore, I believe. Not sure though. They had to have someone perform the ceremony, right? Hmm.

I see where you're coming from but I think when it comes to ruining an innocent person's life and letting a guilty rat (fear the punning powers!) go free, I would use an "Unforgivable Curse".

Maybe Veritaserum isn't as all-powerful as one would think though. Maybe there are ways to counteract it, dark magics that would allow for it, I'm thinking that it's not 100% foolproof.

Plus, remember that in Sirius' case, it was almost 100% certain that he had to be the guilty one. Everyone thought that he was the secret keeper, because that was the original plan. For some reason, I got the sense that Dumbledore knew the truth (was this confirmed in the books?), so a more important question in Sirius' case would be why didn't Dumbledore step in?

Oops, Becca, Slytherin

I'm not sure if Dumbledore knew or not. If he did, and he knew Sirius was innocent, why didn't he step in? Dumbledore wants justice, wth happened there. But if he didn't know, then yeah.

Yeah, that's true. It all comes down to Fudge being stupid and not taking the time to think that magic can also be illusions.

It's funny though. Last year in gifted we studied law and we watched this one video. A criminals professor was teaching a class and had set up this thing for her students. She had a guy come in and steal her purse then run out. Then, she asked the individual students what the man looked like. Hardly anyone got anything correct. It was really interesting but it's something to keep in mind. You can't always trust an eyewitness. Especially when you have magical abilities.

I think when they say 'truth' potion they mean what the potion taker believes to be the truth (don't get me started on 'is there any truth?' or 'universal truth' theories.. they just suck). For example, a pathological liar at one point in time may truly believe they are a mass murderer, when in fact they haven't done anything. A lot of criminals are mentally ill/insane/whatever you want to call it, and what they honest to God believe is the truth might not be at all.
I think the 'truth potion' is more of a 'are you lying, you dirty bastard?' thing than a 'let's find out what really happened' kind of thing.

-Ariel, Ravenclaw

Oh that's a good point. I hadn't thought of that. But it could also be that the truth potion discovers the real truth, the one hidden inside all of the lies, etc. But that's a good idea.

If you were under Imperius, would it still work? Or... some other mind-control thing? I'm sure there are ways around it.

I don't see why not. I imagine Veritaserum to be like a potion that digs through your brain or something along those lines to find the truth, so even with Imperius I think it would still work. But then again, I could be wrong about how Veritaserum works.

It would be interesting to know if there were ways around it.

If someone going on trial was under the imperius curse when they commited their crime and then were given Veritaserum during the trial...it would make them seem guilty. Because Veritaserum makes you tell the truth, and it is the truth that these people commited their crimes and they will admit to it, even when they had no control over their actions. I think this is mentioned in the books, or maybe Rowling has said something about it...but I remember thats why they dont use Veritaserum during trials.

How would it make them seem guilty? Don't people know when they are put under the Imperius curse, so the truth would come out? I don't remember anything about reasons vertiaserum isn't used in trials. I might have missed it. -shrug-

Perhaps since the potion is like the Imperius curse...it can be "thrown off" by someone that can "throw off" the curse itself. In that way I would guess that it wouldn't become an accurate tool anymore.

So, that would pretty much be the same reason that a polygraph (lie detector) is not considered viable evidence in Muggle courts.

The quesiton is, then, why couldn't/didn't Barty Crouch have something prepared? Unless he was cocky enough to assume he wouldn't be caught.

Becca, Hufflepuff

One thing to consider. The Death Eaters are a guerilla organization. There was a reason that they all wore black robes to meetings, and it wasn't just because they looked spooky. It was likely that even a high-ranked Death Eater knew only the person who recruited him, the people he recruited, and anyone who he needed to know because of a mission. Very likely only Voldemort (and perhaps staff) knew everyone --well, until most of them were tossed into Azkaban and they could compare notes.

One also gets the impression that most Death Eater trials were jokes, anyway -- witch hunts, if you will. The point wasn't to decide a suspectred Death Eater's guilt or innoscene -- I suspect that was decided byy the number of his fellows he could/would selloutand/or the money he wouldgive the Ministry.

Becca, Hufflepuff

Are you sure it wasn't just because they wanted to look spooky? :D

You kind of contradicted yourself, in a way..I think. If the Death Eaters didn't know each other, how could they turn each other in?

-Mo//Hufflepuff

Well, one thing to consider would be the price of the ingredients (and skill) involved in making Veritaserum is probably extraordinarily high. The Ministry's probably too cheap to have an in-house Potions specialist just to churn out vials of Veritaserum on a regular basis.

Plus, there might be side-effects to Veritaserum... after all, every time we've seen someone take it, it's almost always been a struggle, hasn't it?

I guess even Veritasserum could be tempered with. Didn't Snape say it takes more than a month to make it? (I could be wrong here...) That's a long time that several people would have to stand guard over it to prevent anyone getting near it and adding something to it that might make it useless or even turn it the other way round so the person drinking it would say something that is not true at all.

I guess the reason they don't use it in court are the same that muggles are not allowed to use recording devices as evidence or that truth drug... what's it called? It's also forcing something on someone - taking away his will which is intrinsically wrong. (And that from a Slytherin!)

But I guess the wizard legal system is the worst I ever heard of. People get thrown into jail without even a trial. And if they get one they don't even get a lawyer to defend them? There's just one man interrogating them who's biassed anyway. And someone guilty gets off easily because he's a famous Quidditch-player? The wizard legal system is in dire need of some reform, if you ask me!

I thought of that after the 4th book and its been making me mad cause there could be so many people (like Sirius and Hagrid and I'm sure more) that could have been sparded the horror or their lives in some cases if they only used truth potion...

But then i thought MAYBE the potion has a harming affect in it and thats why they don't use it that much. And the fact that the minister is a dumbbutt lol

Selene *~*~* Slytherin

Doesn't anyone have moral issues about using veritaserum? Have you ever wondered why the usage is so strictly restricted?

When I hear that "people could have been spared the horror or their lives in some cases if only they had used the potion", it reminds me of a serious issue here in Germany. A few months ago, a boy was kidnapped, and the police threatened the main suspect with the usage of torture, because they were afraid they wouldn't find the boy alive if they waited any longer. Do you find this acceptable?! Do you think it's okay to violate the law and harm others just because you're the good guys?
I think it's the same with veritaserum.

My brother was in court in and out for an accident, and the judge sorta never really beleived him, I know he is innoccent, it was only a car accident mind you, and I was thinking, why not the *lie detector* I know its not 100% fool proof, but why not try it? it coulda helped my brother, he was accused guitly in the end..,
~*~RITA~*~Gryffindork

Veritaserum is strictly controlled by the ministry, Dumbledore never seemed to really abide by what the ministry says so he's used it. I bet they use it, but we just haven't seen a time when Fudge felt it was needed. He thought Sirius was guilty, and would not shift his position. The same with Crouch Jr. He thought he was guilty so of course he was right. He didn't need anyone's input to tell him he *might* be wrong. He'll only listen if you support what he says. Bloody idiot.

~Rachel
-Gryffindor

I expect that's a violation of rights. In the muggle world, no court of law would be allowed to force a suspect to drink 384-proof vodka, even though that would make the suspect share everything on his/her mind (and bladder). fuah to the legal system. Fuah, a thousand times, fuah.